Converting fuel units (pulse width, duty cycle, raw fuel)

[WadZii]

lol, keeping people confused is not all bad.. lol keeps me in business

honestly i prefer viewing the fuel map in raw numbers.  w/all the fuel trims most of us use (boost comp, throttle mod, etc) the actual pulsewidth in the fuel map is equally as meaningless as a raw number.

haha, ever tune anything based on a stock honda ecu (hondata-crome etc..) talk about meaningless numbers!!

[Dale McPeters]

im with mello on this one...  the ems has about the easiest to use software there is.  just having the options there dont make it more complicated, especially if the user isnt required to use them.  the auto-rescale is nice, but i dont want to give up the control i have in AEM PRO

X3

X4

[Alpha]

lol, keeping people confused is not all bad.. lol keeps me in business

honestly i prefer viewing the fuel map in raw numbers.  w/all the fuel trims most of us use (boost comp, throttle mod, etc) the actual pulsewidth in the fuel map is equally as meaningless as a raw number.

haha, ever tune anything based on a stock honda ecu (hondata-crome etc..) talk about meaningless numbers!!

Again. Well said. I agree completely

[Mk4UmHa]

I always used Raw mode because i know that if i'm at 255, i need to raise my microbit/sec and rescale it manually. I have never used duty cycle or the other view since I never trusted it. My aem log tells me i'm at 110% duty cycle which is impossible. So please leave RAW mode in.

[SAG]

Mk4UmHa -

I will definitely note your request, but I do want to respond to the issues you raised as reasons to keep RAW in. First, we believe you shouldn't even need to worry, or know, about microsec/bit, and in AEMTuner you don't. If it always ensures a high resolution and the value you desired, why even worry about adjusting microsec/bit? Why not just tune the map to the values you need and know that the resolution you have is high? The difference in resolution one could achieve by manually rescaling vs. auto-rescaling could not make any meaningful difference in the performance of the engine. Plus we could add an "Optimize map" feature which would automatically optimize it for you (Let me know if you guys like that idea).

As for Duty Cycle, are you using staged injection? If so, Duty Cycle can be above 100% because the main fuel map indicates how much TOTAL fuel to use, for both injectors.

It seems to me that many, if not all, of the issues you guys are having with removing RAW is that you don't trust that AEMTuner will automatically do what you need it to do, is this correct? And if so, can you identify what you're worried will happen? Thanks guys -

Samy

[Scott Warwick]

The more i think of it, the more I think Sammy is correct. If the Tuner is alway(can always) adjust to the perfect resolution why do we need to worry about microsec/bit?  I mean how could you adjust it better than the program, if the program is designed to give you the highest resolution at all times? Maybe I'm missing something here but, I think the designer/maker of the program knows more than we do.

I'm open to responces to understand otherwise, but I like the idea of having to do less to tune a car correctly.


Scott

[WadZii]

id like to be able to adjust it myself just b/c thats what im used too and i understand it the way is in aem pro. 

it dosnt make much since, but i like things complicated sometimes 

[Mello]

Again, I would prefer AEM to leave microbit/sec accessible.  I use microbit/sec during my initial startup setup routine.  I can quickly add or remove fuel across the board instantly.  AEMTuner will not let me do this.  If I find that I have to add a bunch of fuel and max out the raw values, AEMTuner makes me turn off the car so it can rescale.  Same if I remove a lot of fuel.  What a waste of time.  When I'm tuning, just like at work, I want to get down to business and get'r done.  AEMTuner is so top heavy the more I use it the more I appreciate AEMPro.  Just connecting to the EMS takes like 300 mouse click just to get through the connection dialog wizard.  AEMPro is just 2 click and I'm on my way.  In fact, AEMTuner really make you have to dance all over the keyboard with both hands if you don't have your mouse with you.

FWIW.  AEMPro is a really simple tuning package.  I don't understand why AEM is trying to make all of this so automatic.  Most of the people having all their troubles are due to not knowing how EFI works, not the software.  To fix this lack of knowledge on EFI tuning AEM needs to develop "talk out loud" manuals.  The biggest problem is most people are to darn lazy to read the documentation.

[Mk4UmHa]

Mk4UmHa -

I will definitely note your request, but I do want to respond to the issues you raised as reasons to keep RAW in. First, we believe you shouldn't even need to worry, or know, about microsec/bit, and in AEMTuner you don't. If it always ensures a high resolution and the value you desired, why even worry about adjusting microsec/bit? Why not just tune the map to the values you need and know that the resolution you have is high? The difference in resolution one could achieve by manually rescaling vs. auto-rescaling could not make any meaningful difference in the performance of the engine. Plus we could add an "Optimize map" feature which would automatically optimize it for you (Let me know if you guys like that idea).

As for Duty Cycle, are you using staged injection? If so, Duty Cycle can be above 100% because the main fuel map indicates how much TOTAL fuel to use, for both injectors.

It seems to me that many, if not all, of the issues you guys are having with removing RAW is that you don't trust that AEMTuner will automatically do what you need it to do, is this correct? And if so, can you identify what you're worried will happen? Thanks guys -

Samy

I'm not running staged injectors just a one stage of 1000ccs. in my raw Map, I'm at 250s which is near 100% duty with the fuel/boost and power that I'm at. In  AEMLog, it shows that I'm around 85%. In AEMPro, the fuel map in duty cycle view mode, it shows me at max of 39% duty at 30psi at 8500rpms which is not True. It's always been wrong ever since I've used AEMpro which is what forced me to switch to RAW mode. RAW mode makes 200% more sense to tune in IMO.

How does the ECU know what sized injectors and at what microbit it needs to scale the map for? If it scales on it's own, will it scale everything thing correctly? I'd prefer to do it in raw mode and uBit/sec because I KNOW what one bit will do on my AFR. I don't want the ECU to be smart and make me guess what it did and what it changed to. If I swap out my injectors, I already have an idea of what uSec/Bit and Raw value I need to change it to. There's no way the software will know how to scale it. I'll just end up redoing the fuel map in raw mode anyway.

Lets say if you're at 30us/Bit and you're neat 252 at peak fueling but you're around 40 at idle, if the software bumps the uS/bit up to 35 or 40, will it also know how to scale the lower and midrange values in the map correctly?

[shaundrake]

The biggest problem is most people are to darn lazy to read the documentation.

LOL. Have YOU read the "documentation". It leaves something to be desired.

I'd trade Tuner for some good, solid documentation on Pro.

[scottie1134]

I'm in total favor of viewing pulse width in the fuel table.

[AZ]

please check out the new version v0.97d, you can now turn off auto-rescaling as well as view raw value in fuel map.