First time on tuning on the dyno, tips/suggestions

[nitrousbob]

I got to practice on the dyno friday.  Ive taken the EFI university 101 course and been playing with the aem for a while.
It is so different actually doing it, the dyno-dynamics dyno was fun but definately needed 2 people as far as i can tell.

Took 28 pulls,  I really wanted to do cell by cell, but i was on overload with all the information, definately taking my car back over to spend a day on it to get used to everything and do some more learning.  I couldnt ask for a better car to learn on, the owner ted built a great car.  He just wasnt as familiar with aem software as i was.  Car was nice driving down there, ran like a scalded ape on the way home.

So here is the sheet.
http://picasaweb.google.com/MILDOFF/Desktop#5300217262966933138

The basics
2.3L,  8.8:1, FP 3x Cams,  FP 3052, 1 bar spring, 1000cc injectors, Magnus intake, 92 octane pump gas

So the Maps look a little weird i guess, first time is so much learning, i know its not a polished work yet.  I had to pull fuel in the middle of the map,  I just think something is wrong here.  And as far as timing goes, wow props to the pros out there, it is tough to dial this stuff in,  its not like the classroom on the n/a car.  So we were relying on the knock sensor to tell use how much timing to add as well as torque.  The knock table that is set up was basically set just above the noise we actually saw.  Most of the log was all under 1.7v during peak torque and hp.

I should have a log in a couple days,  I was having some usb difficulties with my laptop the day of the dyno tuning, go figure.  Borrowed the shops laptop.

Tell me what ya think. i hope to go back next month and tune my car for an extended session working on technique and with a more developed plan of attack.

[nitrousbob]

Here is the log.

[angelauto]

Good job, glad to see your working it through, You are too fat in the higher load sections. It looks like your spiking your boost, and its choking the motor, then it clears up. In my opinion, it looks like you thought you had to pull fuel out in the middle of your VE table, but you didnt, it was spiking to a higher load cell, you just couldnt catch it quick enough, the spike settles at about 5700rpms. Then the afr looks fine to end of the pull.(too rich for what i would do but its safe). During a pull all eyes should be on the afr gauge and ears on the motor,(with a knock monitor). As soon as your see afr dip into 10's I let off, look at the log where it happened and lean it out. Next pull. 15psi isnt alot(if it is a built motor). looks like timing is conservative in the midrange. But thats ok. Just keep knock at bay and you are golden. Remember fuel keeps you safe, but timing is everything.

[PQatPIT]

I assume that this cal was in use when you was driving away from dyno session?

When tuning at the dyno I wouldn't have knock control ON, because I would have my ear on engine to check if there is any knocking going on without engine management system making its own adjustments on ignition advance. Keeping an eye on knock voltage at parameter table tells something but it may be twisted info also.

Also when tuning at the dyno I wouldn't have O2 feedback ON, because it can make adjustments that counteract what tuner is doing. I have tried to tune with O2 feedback on and logging the amount of feedback (on parameter list), and using those numbers to realize wanted AFR numbers at various rpm's. It seems that this way I can do tuning faster at the dyno. When on the street I have it ON, it seems that there I can do it faster that way. Of course this depends on one's way to tune but ths is how I do it. Hope this gives you some hints how to proceed.

When taking a pull one should floor the pedal close to idle rpm's so that possible acceleration fuel trims have time to clear off. It gives you info also what is happening at lower rpms.

Must say that fuel map shape seems a bit odd. Maybe some checking with you tuning with laptop and a friend doing the driving? Also ignition numbers are conservative, with better fuel you could safely squeeze a lot more power out. Also ignition advance curve has some noise that I think comes from knock control being ON.

Happy tuning!

[nitrousbob]

I was logging knock retard, are you saying that it may affect the timing with out displaying a value for retard?  Seeing how it was my first time and not my engine, i was being a little over cautious.  o2 feedback was off for pulls and its only on under 0 or so psi.

We were thinking it might be better to do this starting with a small wastegate spring and just adjusting a boost controller up to do pulls across the rpm cells at different loads.    I might have better timing numbers if i got to actually do more cells under 14.7 psi.   In class we held rpms and went up in load, but the shop owner thought we would have better luck going, holding load and going through rpms.

[PQatPIT]

I was logging knock retard, are you saying that it may affect the timing with out displaying a value for retard?  Seeing how it was my first time and not my engine, i was being a little over cautious.

Hmm, knock retard doesn't show up in log you posted?

I see also some noise in MAP trace when on boost. Could it be that MAP outlet is straight behind where air enters inlet tube to inlet valve. Hmm, what's the right word here? Also it could be some electrical interference because this is when ignition system is working harder and so maybe disturbing other signals. Over the years I have learned it the hard way that electrical interference and noise is very bad, it gives wrong info to ecu to use and leads ecu to make wrong decisions. Surprisingly many problems are related to bad grounding and connection resistance.

It is good that you realised that you should be overcautious, engine didn't blow   When it was my time I wasn't, although it was my own engine...


Going through rpms is ok, one can reach same goal many ways. If dyno can't take enough energy in and dissipate away when under heavy load then this is somewhat ok. Also if dyno does not have big enough fans and exhaust blow-out system then it keeps engine easier from blowing.

[nitrousbob]

Got me on that one, I guess I wasnt logging that.   I did have another chance today to do some road tuning and ive learned when knock hits it jumps out at ya from regular noise.  But time will tell what i learn.

[TheBoz2]

Read This:
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,24045.0.html

You should consider Boost Comp, I have start started to switch over to that, and so far it is very cool.


I uploaded a 17psi california 91 pump gas map.  This is a partial tune, I did not worry about Idle or any of that fancy stuff.  This could get you a good idea of where to start.  Map - FP DSM88HTA, FIC 1000cc, 42psi Base Pressure, HKS 272, 8.5:1 cr, 2.0l 4g63.


Tuning, you should do a 3000rpm-Redline.  The lower the RPM the better.

Get your fuel all dialed in before you start with your timing.  However on your map, you should have lower timing before peek torque, and then ramp it up after that.

[nitrousbob]

The map is boost comp.  Full actually, seeing a lot of people going with hybrid so thinking about that or just going to regular again.

Your log shows your not getting 100% throttle. =)

I do appreciate all the feedback.

[dsm_gsx97]

I run a boost comp hybrid and after switching a few cars on full boost comp to a hybrid boost comp I'd say it is well worth it to be able to adjust those vacuum areas without messing with your boost areas to obtain your cruise AFR. You should do it. I think you'll like the results, and it is pretty easy to do if you already have a full boost comp map.

[Kristopher]

I run a hybrid boost comp as well. At first glance it looks like a standard fuelling map until you see my boost comp curve is active and linear. Seems to give nice transitions this way.

[TheBoz2]

The map is boost comp.  Full actually, seeing a lot of people going with hybrid so thinking about that or just going to regular again.

Your log shows your not getting 100% throttle. =)

I do appreciate all the feedback.

, yep I am running an adapter on my throttle body so I can use the stock DSM TPS Sensor, and that is why it jumps around like that.  I have not had time to rebuild the adapter.  As long as I see more than 95% I know I am WOT.  Also as you are tuning your car put together a DIY for everyone.  It is good to see how people are tuning there cars.

I should have my new transmission back on the car this weekend and then I start tuning again.  I am hoping to see the 700hp mark out of my car, and somewhere in the high 400 to low 500hp on pump gas.  I only want to run about 22-25psi on pump.